[(0:00)] Woman 1: This week on the Sonic Truth, Veritonic's VP of marketing Kristin Charron sits down with Sam Swig of Havas media to discuss the most integral aspects of audio. How budgets have shifted with the rising popularity of audio and podcasting and how Audio Measurement Technology has impacted the amount of audio in modern marketing mixes. We hope you enjoyed this episode and welcome again to the Sonic truth.

[(0:24)] Kristin: Welcome back to the Sonic truth. I am excited to be joined today by Sam Swig associate director of analytics at Havas. Hi Sam.

[(0:32)] Sam: Hi Kristin. How's the going?

[(0:34)] Kristin: It's going great. How are you? I'm good. It's so great to catch up with you.

[(0:39)] Sam: Likewise. We haven't had an opportunity to catch up since last year's Audio Intelligence Summit. So I am really, really happy to have you on today. It has been too long.

[(0:48)] Kristin: It really has. I'm excited to be here. Let's dive right in. Havas has obviously been a cheerleader of audio as an effective marketing vehicle for a long time. What about audio particular, do you feel makes it a great complement to other channels?

[(1:03)] Sam: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that really whether it's streaming audio or podcasting, we know that both are a part of our audiences everyday routine so that really makes it an essential channel for our clients to be showing up in. With audio, we have a really great opportunity to extend our clients brands and value propositions to a new medium that allows them to create a surround sound of branded content across environments that their audiences are already turning to throughout the day. So it's a place that we've just been, really advocating our clients to make sure that they have a strong presence in.

 [(1:41)] Kristin: So that's really cool. So, unlike say maybe five to ten years ago when brands were saying, you know, I really like audio. I must do it myself. I wanna leverage. The best part of my marketing arsenal, but I'm not really sure how you guys are actually building it into your recommendation. When you're with a brand new set up a media plan.

[(2:03)] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. It's really an essential part of our omni-channel marketing mix. Because we know that it is that pretty consistent place that our audiences are turning to not just on a daily basis but really throughout the day. So, it certainly it's an area that brands need to be showing up and inserting themselves into different types of conversations and environments because we know that the audiences are there and it's a great really great place to reach them.

[(2:32)] Kristin: So, from an approach perspective. Are you doing anything to evolve your approach to audio from a creative and measurement angle?

[(2:40)] Sam: Yeah, we really are so over the last few years we've definitely been able to prove out the effectiveness of audio as a channel, and that's really unlocked opportunities for us to get a little more creative with um, different ways that we can test into types of messaging executions or newer ad formats. So, there's really been a lot tha-, of opportunity that's been unlocked over the last couple of years. Some of the really exciting types of projects that we're currently working on and thinking about are more in the realm of content and thinking through ways that we can insert subject matter experts from our clients' brands and conversation with known podcast hosts or other types of personalities that are really prevalent within the audio space. So, that's definitely some exciting testing that we're doing. Also been doing a lot of testing into newer ad formats with devices like smart speakers where we can try to create more of an interactive audio experience to really engage our audience with a different type of audio activision[?]

[(3:49)] Kristin: That all sounds really exciting and especially as it relates to the co-created content will keep an ear out for that cause that sounds like it could be a lot of fun. 

[(3:57)] Sam: Yeah, definitely something we're super excited about. 

[(4:01)] Kristin: Can you shed any light on how your clients budget may have shifted in recent years, as audio and podcasting, has continued to gain popularity?

[(4:09)] Sam: Yeah, definitely. So we have seen audio and podcasting become a staple in our clients channel mix. Streaming audio, definitely led the way here, but over the last few years the amount we're investing in podcasting has grown significantly. We also know that podcasting is a really trusted channel, so it's become increasingly important that we help our clients associate their brands with shows in voices their audience already turns to and trusts. And that has really paved the way for us to increase investment in this area. And really expand the type of ways that were activating within the podcasting space.

[(4:46)] Kristin: And has the, advent of creative testing come into play at all there. So they identify the show in the audience that, you know, their brand will resonate best with, are they then taking the additional step to put data behind the audio that they put in to market to ensure that it will resonate?

[(5:04)] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. We are really using data to inform all of our go-to-market considerations and with increased audio measurement and testing opportunities, not only has this solidified audios placed within our marketing mix, but it's helped us to really move beyond, reach and delivery from a reporting perspective to understand the impact that different types of, of creative within audio, or within different types of audio environments are having on both our brand health and our lower funnel performance metrics. And this, not only validates the investment we're making within the channel, but also has helped us to unlock deeper learnings on how we can optimize messaging to capitalize on our audiences varying mindset across different audio environments. So we may have a certain type of message that works a lot better when we're running it within more of a lifestyle podcast versus a different message, that's better in more of a endemic news audio environment. So, by having the tools to really understand creative residents across these different types of audio environments, we've been able to optimize the way that we're speaking to our audience across the different environments and that has definitely led to just increased engagement and stronger performance across the board from our audio activations.

[(6:32)] Kristin: And because you're getting that data, is it also enabling you to take increased risks or even from more from like not risks but from a creative perspective to, to think outside the box a little bit more and be a little, have a little more fun with the creative. Knowing that you can test it and ensure that what you're going to market with will still land.

[(6:51)] Sam: Yeah. Definitely. I think the more data that we have the more that we can really iterate our approach and start to really pull from all of the learnings that were getting to kind of augment how we're going to market augment the types  o-, of creatives up and messaging that were creating and prioritizing across these different environments, to make sure that it's really working for us. And it's not only representing our brands well but also really aligning with our audiences mindset across the different ways that they could be tuning in and listening.

[(7:26)] Kristin: And the data that you guys are receiving from both the creative testing, but also attribution and brand lift perspective. Is that data being used by any one team in particular more than others, or is it really being used across the agency and across the organization as it relates to your brands to again, reiterate the ROI of audio?

[(7:47)] Sam: Yeah, I would say that all teams are really leveraging this data. And what we've often found to is that, when we have these more granular, creative level, audience level, learnings that we can really garner from a lot of the newer measurement tools that are available to us. Sometimes they even have legs beyond just audio specifically and kind, and can kind of um, see different ideas for ways that we can, we can test and other channels. So, um, we saw a lot of success in a previous year with um, taking longer format video content and cutting, cutting it down and using those excerpts in audio placements. So, definitely having all of these different data points that we can search or really piece together [inaudible] been valuable across the organization and has really helped us um, come up with more kind of creative ways that we can iterate our approach and become a lot more effective with the audio space.

[(8:44)] Kristin: That's awesome and do you think that as this technology continues to help organizations and agencies like yourself and brands that you work with, what kind of impact you think it'll have on the advertising landscape, moving forward and audios role in that?

[(8:58)] Sam: So I think that audio is definitely going to continue to be a staple in our media mix from a channel perspective. I think one of the pieces that I, I think there was a lot of buzz about a few years ago that never really caught on, but I, I do see potential for over the next couple of years is, voice search. So, I know that a few years ago, there was a ton of talk around that and, and what the opportunity would be there from advertising and monetization perspective, uh, but then it seems like they're really wasn't much adoption and movement there. But that's an area that we're finally starting to see some movement um, in terms of... as I mentioned earlier, testing into more like interactive audio formats, so I could definitely see there being some evolution there with more types of, almost like two-way type audio ad formats but there's definitely a lot of work to be done and, and more adoption to be done there for sure. But I think that will really continue to see the channel grow, and the tools that we can use to evaluate performance of all. So I think it's really an exciting time to be getting into the audio space, and learning more about what the different opportunities there are.

[(10:16)] Kristin: I agree. And as I said, we always look forward to you know, any opportunity we get to work with you but more importantly to see the great stuff that you guys produce, so kudos to the great work and we look forward to hearing more of it in the year ahead.

[(10:31)] Sam: Thanks. Yeah, I think that Veritonic has been such a great partner of ours and has really helped us level up our approach to measuring audio and really proving out the impact that it has. So we're super excited about continuing to strengthen our partnership and hopefully getting some really exciting audio activations live in 2023.

[(10:52)] Kristin: We are too, that is so nice. Thank you. We have now reached my favorite part of the podcast, which is our rapid fire question. Are you ready for, the answer a few off-the-wall questions?

[(11:03)] Sam: I'm ready. Let's do it.

[(11:05)] Kristin: Alright. If you could be next door neighbors with any one podcast host, who would it be and why?

[(11:10)] Sam: Oh, this one, I am gonna go with Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach. The host of, 'We Can Do Hard Things'. They are definitely the ultimate hype women for stepping into your power, owning your authenticity and I could see living next to them being really fun. But also a very empowering experience.

[(11:28)] Kristin: That's a great answer. What was the last thing you purchased from a podcast ad?

[(11:32)] Sam: Oh, th-, [sighs] this is kind of a weird one, but I recently used Teladoc for the first time. So it's a platform where you can get uh, medical advice very easily and very quickly um, without having to go in and see a doctor. And I definitely think that a lot of their audio ads influence me to give it a shot. But the other one that I also recently started using was Grammarly, which has been so helpful and so useful, um, and another one that I was definitely really influenced by their audio campaign. 

[(12:03)] Kristin: See, listeners audio advertising works. That's two, I got more than I bargained for with that answer. That's awesome. I have heard of both of those so that's really cool. You've had good experiences with them. 

[(12:14)] Sam: Yeah, definitely. 

[(12:15)] Kristin: Okay. I have an off the cuff question. It just came to mind, if somebody was creating a movie about your life and you could pick one podcast host to narrate it, who would it be?

[(12:27)] Sam: Oh, this is a tough one.

[(12:31)] Kristin: I'll extend it, podcast host or just celebrity.

[(12:35)] Sam: Hmm, I think I would probably go with Mindy Kaling, um, [chuckles] because I just love her [crosstalk] and I think that she has a really great way of making things very light-hearted and fun to listen to, but she's also really good at getting kind of the, the meaning across. So I would love to have her narrating my life. 

[(12:58)] Kristin: That's a really great answer. I have to go with Jennifer Garner. 

[(13:02)] Sam: Oh, that's a really good one too.

[(13:03)] Kristin: She's just so sweet. I don't know. I feel like that would just be really nice. 

[laughter]

[(13:09)] Kristin: Well, thank you again, Sam. It is always, always a pleasure. So happy that we could have you on, we absolutely look forward to having you on again, and hopefully to seeing you at the next Audio Intelligence Summit in February.

[(13:21)] Sam: Thank you so much Kristin, the pleasure was all mine. I'll definitely be at the Audio Intelligence Summit in February, really can't wait to see you and the team there. Um, this has been lovely. 

[(13:32)] Kristin: Thank you so much.

[(13:34)] Woman 1: At Veritonic, we remain committed to helping you get the most out of your audio strategy. If you're interested in learning more about audio research, testing and measurement, visit veritonic.com or contact marketing, @veritonic.com.

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